Tag Archives: showrunner

Showrunner/EP Robert Carlock talks Netflix’s Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt

By Iain Blair

When Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt first premiered back in 2015, the sitcom seemed quite shocking — and not just because NBC sold it off to Netflix so quickly. While at the streaming service, it has been a big hit with audiences and critics alike, racking up dozens of industry awards and nominations, including 18 Primetime Emmy nominations.

Robert Carlock

Created by Tina Fey and Robert Carlock, the sunny comedy with a dark premise stars Ellie Kemper as the title character. She moves to New York City after being rescued from an underground bunker where she and three other women were held captive for 15 years by doomsday cult leader (John Hamm).

Alone in the Big Apple, and armed only with her unbreakable sense of optimism, Kimmy soon forges a new life that includes her colorful landlady Lillian Kaushtupper (Carol Kane), her struggling actor roommate (Tituss Burgess) and her socialite employer (Jane Krakowski). The strong cast also boasts recurring talent and A-list guests, such as Tina Fey, Martin Short, Fred Armisen, Jeff Goldblum, Amy Sedaris and Lisa Kudrow.

Last year Netflix renewed the show for a final season, with the first six episodes premiering in May 2018.

I recently spoke with Carlock about making the show, the Emmys and the planned movie version.

When Kimmy Schmidt first came out, its premise seemed bizarre and shocking — a young woman who was kidnapped, abused and held captive in an underground bunker. But looking back today, it seems ahead of its time.
Unfortunately, I think you’re right. At the time we felt strongly it was a way to get people talking about things and issues they didn’t necessarily want to talk about, such as how women are really treated in this society. And with the #MeToo movement it’s more timely than ever. Tina would say, “It keeps happening, it’s in the news all the time, and at this level,” and it’s really sad that it’s true. The last two seasons we’ve been dealing more and more with issues like this, and now people really are talking about sexual harassment in the workplace. But we have the added burden of also trying to make it funny.

Is Season 4 definitely the final one?
I think so, and the second half will stream sometime early next year. In the meantime, we’re talking about the movie deal that Netflix wants and what that will entail. We kind of thought about it as, “Let’s give our characters endings since there’s still so much to talk about,” but you also have to bear in mind the topicality of it all in a year or so. So it gave us the luxury of being able to finish the show in a way that felt right, and Season 5 — the second half of Season 4 — will satisfy fans, I think. We’re also very happy that Netflix is so enthusiastic about doing it this way.

Do you like being a showrunner?
I do, and I love it better than not being in charge. The beauty of TV is that, unlike in movies, and for a variety of reasons, writers get to be in charge. I love the fact that when you’re a showrunner, you get to learn so much about everything, including all the post production. You work with all these really skilled artisans and get to oversee the entire process from start to finish, including picking out what shade of blue the dress should be (laughs). It’s much better than watching other people make all the key decisions.

What are the big challenges of showrunning?
The big one is trying to think outside of the writer’s room. You have all that ambition on the page, but then you have to deal with the reality of actually shooting it and making it work. It’s a lot easier to type it than execute it. Then you have to be really objective about what’s working and what isn’t, because you fall in love with what you write. So you have to realize, “Maybe this needs a little insert, or more jokes here to get the point across,” and you have to put that producer hat on — and that can be really tricky. It’s a challenge for sure, but we’ve also been fortunate in having a great crew that’s been with us a while, so there’s that shorthand, and things move quickly on the set and we get a lot done.

Where do you shoot and post?
We do the shooting at the Broadway Stages in Brooklyn, and have all the editing setup there as well. Then we have Tina’s production offices at Columbus Circle, and we do all the sound at Sync Sound in midtown Manhattan.

Do you like the post process?
I love post and the whole process of seeing a script come alive as you edit.  You find ways of telling the story that you maybe didn’t expect.

You have a big cast and a lot of stuff going on in each episode. What are the big editing challenges?
One of the big creative challenges of a single-camera show — which ultimately also gives you so many more tools in writing, shooting and editing — is that you don’t get to see rehearsals. So one of the reasons our episodes are going into post and often coming out of post so stuffed with story and jokes is that we don’t get so many opportunities to see exactly what’s making the scene tick. We’re hitting the story, hitting the jokes and hitting the characters too many times, and  a lot of the challenge is scraping all those away. Our episodes come in around the mid-30s often, and we think they live and play best around 26 or 27 minutes. That’s where I think the sweet spot is. So you can feel, “Oh, I love that joke,” but the hard reality is that the scene plays so much better without it.

Talk about the importance of sound and music.
I think it’s so important in comedy, and it can totally change the feel of a scene. Jeff Richmond — Tina’s husband and one of our producers — does all the music. He’s also fantastic in the edit. So if I’m not available or Tina isn’t, then he or Sam Means, another producer, can take our edit notes and interpret them. We’ll type up 15 pages on a Director’s Cut, and then we hone the show until it’s a lock for the network, and we go through it all frame by frame.

How important are the Emmys to you and a show like this?
Increasingly now, with all the noise and static out there, and so many other good shows, it’s really important. I think it helps cut through the clutter. When you’re working hard on a show like this, with your head down all the time, you don’t really know where you stand sometimes. So to be nominated by your peers means a lot. (Laughs) I wish it didn’t, but we’re small-minded people who only really care about other people’s opinions.

What’s the latest on talk about a movie? Will it be a theatrical release or just Netflix, or both?
That’s a great question. Who knows? We’re in the middle of trying to figure out the budget. I imagined it would be just streaming, but maybe it will be theatrical as well. One thing’s for sure. We won’t be one of those TV shows that gets a whole new cast for the movie version. Lightning struck with our first cast, and we’re not looking to replace anyone.

There’s been a lot of talk about lack of opportunity for women in movies. Are things better in TV?
I can only speak for us, but we like shows where there’s a lot of diversity and different voices, and sometimes we step in a bear trap we didn’t even know was there because we’re trying to write for so many different voices. For us, it just makes sense to embrace diversity, but it’s such a complicated and thorny issue. I’m just glad we’re talking about it more now. It’s what interests us. When Tina and I first sat down to write this, we didn’t want to do something salacious and exploitive. We were thinking about a really startling way to get people talking about gender and class. It’s been a fun challenge.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

Showrunner Dan Pyne — Amazon Studios’ Bosch

By Iain Blair

How popular is Amazon’s Emmy-nominated detective show Bosch? So popular that the streaming service ordered up Season 5 before Season 4 even debuted in April. This critically acclaimed hour-long series is Amazon’s longest-running Prime Original.

Based on the best-selling novels by Michael Connelly, the show stars Titus Welliver (Lost) as LAPD homicide detective Harry Bosch, alongside a large ensemble cast that includes James Hector (The Wire), Amy Aquino (Being Human), Madison Lintz (The Walking Dead) and Lance Reddick (The Wire).

Dan Pyne

Season 4 kicked off with the murder of a high-profile attorney on the eve of his civil rights trial against the LAPD. Bosch is assigned to lead a task force — that suspects fellow cops — to solve the crime before the city erupts in a riot. Bosch must pursue every lead, even if it turns the spotlight back on his own department. One murder intertwines with another, and Bosch must reconcile his not-so-simple past to find a justice that has long eluded him.

Bosch was developed for television by Eric Overmyer (Treme, The Wire, Homicide: Life on the Streets) and is executive produced by Dan Pyne, whose film credits include The Manchurian Candidate, Pacific Heights, Sum of All Fears and Fracture. He also co-created and co-produced The Street, a syndicated police procedural starring Stanley Tucci.

I recently spoke with Pyne about making the show, the Emmys, production and post.

Eric Overmyer, who took a break to work on another Amazon production, The Man in the High Castle, is coming back to act as co-showrunner with you on Season 5. How will you split duties?
Good question! We’re making it up as we go along. I’d never worked with him before, but I did have a longtime partner before. Basically, we talk a lot and come to an agreement about any issues. The great thing about this show is that every season is its own entity, with its own rhythm and voice.

Have you started on Season 5?
We have, and we have almost six episodes plotted out and we start shooting in early August.

Where do you shoot?
We’re based at Red Studios in Hollywood, which isn’t far from the local police station, and we recreated that interior on a set, and it’s so uncannily similar — apart from a few details — that it’s hard to tell them apart. We shoot a lot in Hollywood and then locations all over the city and further afield.

Bosch has a very cinematic feel and look.
Yes, and that’s in part due to our producer, Pieter Jan Brugge, who comes from film and who’s worked a lot with Michael Mann on movies like Heat and Miami Vice — this is his first TV show.  I come from a film background too, so we take more of a film approach and discuss stuff like the sound and visuals and what they should be like and how a scene should play before we even start shooting

Do you like being a showrunner?
I do, and I was well-trained. I came up intending to write movies and then fell into TV and got lucky with the show Hard Copy. I became a specialist in 10-episode arcs (like Bosch). I got to work with several legendary showrunners, including Richard Levinson and William Link, who created such classic TV shows as Columbo and Murder, She Wrote, and William Sackheim who did Gidget and The Flying Nun. I haven’t done showrunning that much, but I always ran my own shows. And it’s the closest thing to being a film director because you have control and get to collaborate with everyone else, including post, which is so much fun.

Where do you post?
At Red Studios. We have a great team, including post producer Mark Douglas and post supervisor Tayah Geist, and we do color correction at Warner Bros. with colorist Scott Klein. He works closely with Pieter and the DPs, and sometimes we’ll make an entire season cooler or warmer. We’ll get inspiration from movies — maybe Japanese films or Blade Runner and so on — to help us with the color palette.

Do you like the post process?
Very much. It’s so true when people say, like with movies, there are three TV shows — the one you write, the one you shoot and the one you make in post. It’s in post where you start all over again each time, see what you’ve got, what works and doesn’t. I’ve always enjoyed collaborating with editors and all the sound people. I love what they bring to storytelling: the way they can help say things and elevate the material and help make stuff clear for the audience, and show or hide emotionality.

Let’s talk about editing. You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
Yes, it’s the tight schedule, and in order to get it done we rotate three editors. One does four shows, and the other two do three, and we alternate. That way they have enough time to cut a show and pretty much finish it before moving to the next one. If you only have two editors, the workload’s overwhelming, so we use three — Steve Cohen, Jacque Toberen and Kevin Casey. There are three assistant editors — Rafael Nur, Judy Guerrero and Knar Kitabjian.

You have a big cast, and a lot of stuff going on in each episode. What are the big editing challenges?
We have two big ones. As it’s an investigative show it can be very detailed, so clarity is always a priority — making sure that all the story and plot points get pulled in the right way and land correctly. Mike’s books are very twisty, and they have a lot of tiny clues, so as detectives walk through scenes they’ll see things. There’s a lot of visual foreshadowing of things that come back later. The other one is making sure the episodes have pace. Police procedurals tend to fall into a pattern of walk-and-talk, and we try and avoid that.

Who does the VFX, and what’s involved?
Moving Target, and their Alan Munro is our VFX supervisor. We use a lot more VFX than you would imagine. One of the show’s hallmarks is making it all as real as possible, so when we recently did a show with scenes in tunnels we used a lot of masking and CGI as we were limited in the way we could light and shoot the actual tunnels. I find that visual effects really make TV a lot easier. We do some plates depending on the situation, but often it’s really small stuff and cleanup to make it all even more realistic.

This show has a great score by Jesse Voccia and great sound design. Can you talk about the importance of sound and music?
Sound is always difficult because it’s TV. It’s the nature of the beast. TV often shoots so fast that the production sound can be problematic, what with traffic noise and so on, and you have to fix all that. But I love playing with sound and working with the sound designers and ADR guys. We do all the mixing at Technicolor at Paramount, and we have a great crew. There’s not a lot of music in the show, but we try to make it all count and not use short little stingers like TV usually does, or score a chase. We’ll use sound design or natural sound instead.

How important are the Emmys to a show like this, which seems a little underrated?
It would be great to be nominated, although maybe the fans don’t care that much. We do fly under the radar a bit, I think, so more recognition would be very welcome.

Thanks to the ongoing source material, the show could easily run for many more years. Will you do more seasons of the show?
I’d love to. What’s so great is that every season is brand new and different, with its own beginning, middle and end. It plays like a book, so we can really work on the tone and feel.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.