Audionamix – 7.1.20

Category Archives: Showrunner

Hulu’s The Great: Creator and showrunner Tony McNamara

By Iain Blair

Aussie writer/director Tony McNamara is the creator, showrunner and executive producer of Hulu’s The Great, the new 10-episode series starring Elle Fanning as Catherine the Great and Nicholas Hoult as Russian Emperor Peter III. The Great is a comedy-drama about the rise of Catherine the Great — from German outsider to the longest reigning female ruler in Russia’s history (from 1762 until 1796).

Season 1 is a fictionalized and anachronistic story of an idealistic, romantic young girl who arrives in Russia for an arranged marriage to Emperor Peter. Hoping for love and sunshine, she finds instead a dangerous, depraved, backward world that she resolves to change. All she has to do is kill her husband, beat the church, baffle the military and get the court on her side. A very modern story about the past, which incorporates historical facts occasionally, it encompasses the many roles she played over her lifetime — as lover, teacher, ruler, friend and fighter.

L-R: Tony McNamara and cinematographer John Brawley

McNamara most recently wrote the Oscar-winning film The Favourite, for which he received an Academy Award nomination for Best Original Screenplay. His other feature film credits include The Rage in Placid Lake, which he wrote and directed, and Ashby.

McNamara has writen some Australia’s most memorable television series, including The Secret Life of Us, Love My Way, Doctor Doctor and Spirited. He also served as showrunner of the popular series Puberty Blues.

I recently spoke with McNamara, who was deep in post, about making the show and his love of editing and post.

When you wrote the stage play this is based on, did you also envision it as a future TV series?
Not at all. I was just a playwright and I’d worked a bit in TV but I never thought of adapting it. But then Marian Macgowan, my co-producer on this, saw it and suggested making a movie of it, and I began thinking about that

What did the stage version teach you?
That it worked for an audience, that the characters were funny, and that it was just too big a story for a play or a film.

It’s like a Dickensian novel with so many periods and great characters and multiple storylines.
Exactly, and as I worked more and more in TV, it seemed like the perfect medium for this massive story with so many periods and great characters. So once the penny dropped about TV, it all went very fast. I wrote the pilot and off we went.

I hear you’re not a fan of period pieces, despite this and all the success you had with The Favourite. So what was the appeal of Catherine and what sort of show did you set out to make?
I love period films like Amadeus and Barry Lyndon, but I don’t like the dry, polite, historically accurate, by-the-numbers ones. So I write my things thinking, “What would I want to watch?” And Catherine’s life and story are so amazing, and anything but polite.

What did Elle Fanning and Nicholas Hoult bring to their roles?
They’re both great actors and really funny, and that was important. The show’s a drama in terms of narrative, but it also feels like a comedy, but then it also gets very dark in places. So they had to be able to do both — bring a comic force to it but also be able to put emotional boots on the ground… and move between the two very easily, and they can do that. They just got it and knew the show I wanted to make before we even got going. I spent time with them discussing it all, and they were great partners.

Where do you shoot?
We did a lot of it on stages at 3 Mills Studios in London and shot some exteriors around London. We then went to this amazing palace near Naples, Italy, where we shot exteriors and interiors for a couple of weeks. We really tried to give the show a bit more of a cinematic feel and look than most TV shows, and I think the production design is really strong. We all worked very hard to not make it feel at all like sets. We planned it out so we could move between a lot of rooms so you didn’t feel trapped by four walls in just one set. So even though it’s a very character-driven story, we also wanted to give it that big epic sweep and scope.

Do you like being a showrunner?
(Laughs) It depends what day it is. It’s a massive job and very demanding.

What are the best parts of the job and the worst?
I love the writing and working with the actors and the director. Then I love all the editing and all the post — that’s really my favorite thing in the whole process after the writing. I’ve always loved editing, as it’s just another version of writing. And I love editors, and ours are fun to hang out with, and it’s fun to try and solve problems. The worst parts are having to deal with all the scheduling and the nuts and bolts of production. That’s not much fun.

Where do you post?
We do it all in London, with all the editing at Hireworks and all the sound at Encore. When we’re shooting at the studios we set up an edit suite on site, so we start working on it all right away. You have to really, as the TV schedule doesn’t allow much time for post compared with film.

Talk about editing. You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
We had three editors, who are all so creative and inventive. I love getting all the material and then editing and tweaking things, particularly in comedy. There’s often a very fine line in how you make something funny and how you give the audience permission to laugh.

I think the main editing challenges were usually the actual storytelling, as we tell a lot of stories really fast, so it’s managing how much story you tell and how quickly. It’s a 10-hour story; you’re also picking off moments in an early episode that will pay off far later in the series. Plus you’re dealing with the comedy factor, which can take a while to get up and running in terms of tone and pace. And if there’s a darker episode, you still want to keep some comedy to warm it up a bit.

But I don’t micro-manage the editors. I watch cuts, give some notes and we’ll chat if there are big issues. That way I keep fresh with the material. And the editors don’t like coming on set, so they keep fresh too.

How involved are you with the sound?
I’m pretty involved, especially with the pre-mix. We’ll do a couple of sessions with our sound designer, Joe Fletcher, and Marian will come in and listen, and we’ll discuss stuff and then they do the fixes. The sound team really knows the style of the soundscape we want, and they’ll try various things, like using tones instead of anything naturalistic. They’re very creative.

Tony McNamara and Elle Fanning on set

There’s quite a lot of VFX. 
BlueBolt and Dneg did them all — and there are a lot, as period pieces always need a ton of small fixes. Then in the second half, we had a lot of stuff like dogs getting thrown off roofs, carriages in studios that had to be running through forests, and we have a lot of animals — bears, butterflies and so on. There’s also a fair whack of violence, and all of it needed VFX.

Where do you do the DI?
We did the grading at Encore, and we spent a lot of time with DP John Brawley setting the basic look early on when we did the pilot, so everyone got it. We had the macro look early, and then we’d work on specific scenes and the micro stuff.

Are you already planning Season 2?
I have a few ideas and a rough arc worked out, but with the pandemic we’re not sure when we’ll even be able to shoot again.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

Killing Eve EP Sally Woodward Gentle walks us through Season 3

By Iain Blair

Killing Eve is more than just one of the most addictive spy thrillers on TV. It’s also a dark comedy, a workplace drama and a globe-trotting actioner that tells the story of two women engaged in an epic game of cat-and-mouse — Eve (Sandra Oh), head of a secret MI6 unit, and Villanelle (Jodie Comer), a beautiful (and strangely likeable) psychopathic assassin Eve’s been tasked to track down.

Sally Woodward Gentle

The award-winning show continues the story of the two women when it returns for its third season, now airing on both BBC America and AMC. Season 3 sees Eve back in action after having survived being shot by Villanelle in the Season 2 finale. Eve is now in Rome and her current MI6 status is in flux after being manipulated by Carolyn (Fiona Shaw), Eve’s boss.

Continuing the show’s tradition of passing the baton to a new female writing voice, Suzanne Heathcote serves as lead writer and executive producer for Season 3, joining executive producers Sally Woodward Gentle, Phoebe Waller-Bridge (who was brought on by Gentle as head writer for Season One), Lee Morris, Gina Mingacci, Damon Thomas, Jeff Melvoin and Sandra Oh. Killing Eve is produced by Sid Gentle Films and is distributed by Endeavor Content.

I recently spoke with Gentle — the BAFTA-winning and Emmy-nominated EP of the dramas Any Human Heart and The Durrells in Corfu — about making the show (based on the books of Luke Jennings) and her workflow.

What can you tell us about Season 3 without giving too much away?
It’s a much more emotional season. We move Eve and Villanelle’s relationship on, and we get to see more of what Villanelle is really about. At the same time, Eve is really tested. We also bring in lots of new characters, which is very exciting, and Carolyn and Konstantin (Villanelle’s handler, played by Kim Bodnia) have got huge roles to play.

The appeal of two female leads seems obvious now, but were there doubts about having them play traditional male roles when you first optioned Jennings’ books?
Not really. In fact, it didn’t even cross my mind. I just felt that people really enjoy having a female assassin, and that it would be great to have another woman chase her. And I didn’t feel that the idea was wildly original. It just felt right, but I knew there were other female assassin shows out there, and I didn’t want people to go, “Oh, there’s La Femme Nikita.” I did feel it was time to do something bolder with it.

Is that how you decided to involve Phoebe Waller-Bridge?
Exactly. I’d read Fleabag and we’d had a meeting, and I just loved her attitude. Back then, she’d only done Fleabag and written some very clever comedy. I loved the idea of putting Luke’s novellas together with her attitude, joie de vivre and love of TV and what it could do. It didn’t feel like, “Wow, this will be earth-shatteringly different!” It just felt like something really interesting to do. Just do it and see what comes out.

You’ve executive produced all three seasons. What are the main challenges of this show?
To keep it feeling really fresh each year, and to not repeat stuff you’ve done. To examine new, different areas of emotional relationships, and to put people under different types of stress. The other big challenge is that we have to turn it around from start to finish in just one year. We have to write all the scripts, shoot them, post them and get them out there in that time. It’s really hard work, both physically and mentally, but a lot of our team’s been here since the start. They love it, and that really helps, and everyone wants to push it a bit harder every season, so we embrace all new ideas.

Is it true that when Sandra Oh was first approached, she didn’t quite believe she was being cast as Eve?
Yeah, she hadn’t pictured herself in the role, but she’s brilliant.

What do Sandra and Jodie bring to the mix?
They bring so much. We were still finishing scripts for Season 1 as we shot, so you can’t help but feed their input into the scripts, and the characters really have so much of the actors’ DNA. They just know them so well and how they’d respond.

You always use great locations. Where did you shoot Season 3?
In Spain, Romania, the UK. We get around!

Where do you post?
All at Molinare in London. We do everything from the edit to the grade, and we do all the sound at Hackenbacker, which is part of Molinare.

Do you like the post process?
I love it and really enjoy it. We have a great post supervisor, Kate Stannard, who’s been on the show since the start. The great thing about post is that you get to rewrite all the raw material and be really creative with it.

Talk about editing. You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
We have a great team of editors, including Dan Crinnion, who’s been on the show since the start, and an Italian editor Simone Nesti, who does the assembly and who’s also been with us since the start. As soon as a director has finished shooting, we get right in there with the editor who does that block. We shoot in blocks of two episodes,and each block has its own editor and assistants. It’s not a huge team considering the amount of work.

The show is a real genre mash-up — thriller, comedy, action, emotional drama. How do you handle all the shifting tones?
That’s the big editing challenge and the thing we were most concerned about in Season 1  — that Eve’s and Villanelle’s two stories were too disparate to be knitted together properly. But once you start to get a feel for what the show is and what works and what doesn’t, it flows more easily. For me, if it gets too broad and it doesn’t feel truthful, that’s not good. But then it’s also a big piece of entertainment, so you can be really wild with it. We’re not saving lives, and there’s no massive message. We just want to be truthful about human behavior and be very entertaining.

There’s obviously a lot of attention also paid to the sound and the music.
Thanks for noticing. We have a great production sound team. Nigel Heath is our rerecording mixer, and our aim is not to have the dialogue too clean and out front. We like to keep a lot of texture in the background and make it feel quite immersive. Then in terms of the music, composer David Holmes is quite bold in his choices. That’s very tricky, as we try hard not to be too genre and obvious with the cues, so they don’t just reinforce the visuals and what you should feel. So at a very dark moment the score might be quite celebratory and glorious. We’re constantly trying to flip it.

What about the DI?
It’s incredibly important, and our colorist Gareth Spensley has worked on it since Season 1 so he knows the show really well, and he works very closely with our DP Julian Court, who’s done most of the episodes since the start. Sometimes we have to shoot out of sequence, at different times of year, so you have to match all that. We try to find locations that feel fresh and exciting, and then we try hard not to overstylize the look and keep all the skin tones as natural and real as possible, and then enhance the beauty of the rest of it. At the very start of the show, we thought of pushing the look to get a more “noir” look, but it just didn’t feel right, so we just leant more into the pleasure of the visuals.

How important are the Emmys to a show like this?
Hugely important, for both the show and the actors. I think it’s given us far more visibility.

I heard you already got picked up for Season 4. How far along are you with it?
We’re already writing and nearly have the whole season arc worked out, and we’ll start shooting it at the end of September. Of course, it all depends on what happens with the COVID-19 crisis, but that’s the plan.

Will you do more seasons?
I can see us going on as long as we keep refreshing it and move their relationship along. Then we have all these new characters we’ve created who’ll be there in Season 4 and beyond, so there’s plenty to explore.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

Audionamix – 7.1.20

Showrunner Derek Simonds talks USA Network’s The Sinner

By Iain Blair

Three years ago, USA Network’s Golden Globe- and Emmy-nominated series The Sinner snuck up behind viewers, grabbed them by the throat and left them gasping for air while they watched a seemingly innocent man stabbed to death at the beach. The second season pulled no punches either, focusing on the murder of a couple by a young boy.

Derek Simonds (right) on set with Bill Pullman.

Now the anthology is back with a third installment, which once again centers around Detective Harry Ambrose (Bill Pullman) as he begins a routine investigation of a tragic car accident on the outskirts of Dorchester, in upstate New York. Piece by piece, Ambrose gradually uncovers a hidden crime that pulls him into another dangerous and disturbing case focusing on Jamie Burns (Matt Bomer), a Dorchester resident, high school teacher and expectant father. The Season 3 finale airs at the end of the month on USA Network.

Also back is the show’s creator and showrunner Derek Simonds, whose credits include ABC’s limited series When We Rise, and ABC’s 2015 limited series The Astronaut Wives Club. He has developed television pilots, wrote, directed and composed the score for his feature film Seven and a Match, and has developed many independent film projects as a writer/producer, including the Oscar-Nominated Sony Pictures Classics release Call Me by Your Name.

I recently spoke with Simonds about making the show — which is executive-produced by Jessica Biel (who starred in Season 1) and Michelle Purple through their company Iron Ocean — the Emmys, and his love of post.

THE SINNER -- "Part II" Episode 302 -- Pictured: Bill Pullman as Detective Lt. Harry Ambrose -- (Photo by: Peter Kramer/USA Network)

When you created this show, did you always envision it as a tortured human drama, a police procedural, or both?
(Laughs) Both, I guess. My previous writing and developing stuff for film and TV was never procedural-oriented. The opportunity with this show came with the book being developed and Jessica Biel being attached.  I was one of many writers vying for the chance to adapt it, and they chose my pitch. The reason the book and the bones of the show appealed to me was the “whydunnit” aspect at the core of Season 1. That really sold me, as I wasn’t very interested in doing a typical procedural mystery or a serial killer drama that was really plot-oriented.

The focus on motive and what trauma could have led to such a rash act — Cora (in Season 1) stabbing the stranger on the beach — that is essentially the mystery, the psychological mystery. So I’ve always been character-oriented in my writing. I love a good story and watching a plot unfold, but really my main interest as a writer and why I came onto the show is because it delves so deeply into character.

Fair to say that Season 3 marks a bit of a shift in the show?
Yes, and I’d say this season is less of a mystery and more of a psychological thriller. It really concerns Detective Harry Ambrose, who’s been in the two earlier seasons, and he encounters this more mundane event — a fatal, tragic car crash — but a car crash, and something that happens all the time.

As he starts looking into it, he realizes that the survivor is not telling the whole story, and that some of the details just don’t add up. His intuition makes him look deeper, and he ends up getting into this relationship that is part suspect, part detective, part pursuer, part pursuee and part almost-friendship with this character played by Matt Bomer.

It also seems more philosophical in tone than the previous two seasons.
I think you’re right. The idea was born out of thinking about Dostoevsky and questions about “why do we kill?” Could it be for philosophical reasons, not just the result of trauma? Could it be that kind of decision? What is morality? Is it learned or is it invented? So there were all these questions and ideas, and I was also very excited to create a male character — not a helpless child or a woman, not someone so innocent — as the new character and have that character reflect Ambrose’s darker side and impulses back to him. So there was this doppelganger-y twinning going on.

Where do you shoot?
All out of New York City. We have stages in Brooklyn where we have our sets, and then we do a lot of location work all over the city and also just outside in Westchester and Rockland counties. They offer us great areas where we can cheat a more bucolic setting than we’re actually in.

It has more of a cinematic feel and look than most TV shows.
Thank you for noticing! As the creator, I’m biased about that, but I spend a lot of time and energy with my team and DP Radium Cheung and designers to really try and avoid the usual TV tropes and clichés and TV-style lighting and shooting every step of the way.

We try to think of every episode as a little film. In fact, every season is like a long film, as they’re stand-alone stories, and I embark on each season like, “OK, we’re making a 5½-hour movie,” and all the decisions we make are kind of holistic.

Do you like being a showrunner?
It’s a great privilege to be able to tell a story and make the decisions about what that story says, and to be able to make it on the scale that we do. It’s totally thrilling, and I love having a moment at the podium to talk about the culture and what’s on my mind through the characters. But I think it’s also one of the hardest jobs you could ever have. In fact, it’s really like having four or five jobs rolled into one, and it’s really, really exhausting, as you’re running between them at all times. So there’s this feeling that you never have enough time, or enough time to think as deeply in every area as you’d like. It takes its toll physically, but it’s so gratifying to get a new season done and out in the world.

Where do you post?
All in New York at Technicolor Postworks, and we do most of the editing there too, and all of our online work. We do all the sound work at Decibel 11, which is also in Manhattan. As for our VFX, we switch year to year, and this year we’re working with The Molecule.

Do you like the post process?
I love post. There’s so much relief once you finish production and that daily stress of worrying about whether you’ll get what you need is over. You can see what you have.

But you don’t have much time for post in TV as compared with film.
True.  it’s an incredibly fast schedule, and as the EP I only have about four or five full days to sit down with the editor and re-cut an episode and consider what the best possible version of it is.

Let’s talk about editing. You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
I really love the whole editing process, and I spend a lot of time cutting the episodes — 10 hours a day, or more, for those five days, fine-tuning all the cuts before we have to lock them. I’m not the type of showrunner who gives a few notes and goes off to the next room. I’m very hands-on, and we’ve had the same three editors except for one new guy this season.

Everyone comes back, so there’s a growing understanding of the tone and what the show is. So all three editors rotate on the eight episodes. The big editing challenges are refining performance as things become clearer from previous episodes, and running time. We’re a broadcast show, so we don’t have the leeway of a streaming show, and there’s a lot of hair-pulling over how to cut episodes down. That can be very stressful for me, as I feel we might be losing key content that brings a lot of nuance. There’s also keeping a consistent tone and rhythm, and I’m very specific about that.

You’re also a musician, so I assume you must spend a lot of time on sound and the music?
I do. I work in depth on the score with composer Ronit Kirchman, so that’s an aspect of post I really, really love, and where I spend far more time than a typical showrunner does. I understand it and can talk about it, and I have very specific ideas about what I want. But TV’s so different from movies. We do our final mix review in four hours per episode. With a movie you’d have four, five days. So there’s very little time for experimentation, and you have to have a very clear vision of what works.

Derek Simonds

How important are the Emmys to a show like this?
Very, and Jessica Biel was nominated for her role in Season 1, but we haven’t won yet. We have a lot of fans in the industry, but maybe we’re also a bit under the radar, a bit cultish.

The show could easily run for many more years. Will you do more seasons?
I hope so. The beauty of an anthology is that you can constantly refresh the story and introduce new characters, which is very appealing. If we keep going, I think it’ll pivot in a larger way to keep it really fresh. I just never want it to become predictable, where you sense a pattern.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.


Dick Wolf’s television empire: his production and post brain trust

By Iain Blair

The TV landscape is full of scripted police procedurals and true crime dramas these days, but the indisputable and legendary king of that crowded landscape is Emmy-winning creator/producer Dick Wolf, whose name has become synonymous with high-quality drama.

Arthur Forney

Since it burst onto the scene back in 1990, his Law & Order show has spawned six dramas and four international spinoffs, while his “Chicago” franchise gave birth to another four series — the hugely popular Chicago Med, Chicago Fire and Chicago P.D. His Chicago Justice was cancelled after one season.

Then there’s his “FBI” shows, as well as the more documentary-style Cold Justice. If you’ve seen Cold Justice — and you should — you know that this is the real deal, focusing on real crimes. It’s all the more fascinating and addictive because of it.

Produced by Wolf and Magical Elves, the real-life crime series follows veteran prosecutor Kelly Siegler, who gets help from seasoned detectives as they dig into small-town murder cases that have lingered for years without answers or justice for the victims. Together with local law enforcement from across the country, the Cold Justice team has successfully helped bring about 45 arrests and 20 convictions. No case is too cold for Siegler, as the new season delves into new unsolved homicides while also bringing updates to previous cases. No wonder Wolf calls it “doing God’s work.” Cold Justice airs on true crime network Oxygen.

I recently spoke with Emmy-winning Arthur Forney, executive producer of all Wolf Entertainment’s scripted series (he’s also directed many episodes), about posting those shows. I also spoke with Cold Justice showrunner Liz Cook and EP/head of post Scott Patch.

Chicago Fire

Dick Wolf has said that, as head of post, you are “one of the irreplaceable pieces of the Wolf Films hierarchy.” How many shows do you oversee?
Arthur Forney: I oversee all of Wolf Entertainment’s scripted series, including Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, Chicago Fire, Chicago P.D., Chicago Med, FBI and FBI: Most Wanted.

Where is all the post done?
Forney: We do it all at NBCUniversal StudioPost in LA.

How involved is Dick Wolf?
Forney: Very involved, and we talk all the time.

How does the post pipeline work?
Forney: All film is shot on location and then sent back to the editing room and streamed into the lab. From there we do all our color corrections, which takes us into downloading it into Avid Media Composer.

What are the biggest challenges of the post process on the shows?
Forney: Delivering high-quality programming with a shortened post schedule.

Chicago Med

What are the editing challenges involved?
Forney: Trying to find the right way of telling the story, finding the right performances, shaping the show and creating intensity that results in high-quality television.

What about VFX? Who does them?
Forney: All of our visual effects are done by Spy Post in Santa Monica. All of the action is enhanced and done by them.

Where do you do the color grading?
Forney: Coloring/grading is all done at NBCUniversal StudioPost.

Now let’s talk to Cook and Patch about Cold Justice:

Liz and Scott, I recently saw the finale to Season 5 of Cold Justice. That was a long season.
Liz Cook: Yes, we did 26 episodes, so it was a lot of very long days and hard work.

It seems that there’s more focus than ever on drug-related cases now.
Cook: I don’t think that was the intention going in, but as we’ve gone on, you can’t help but recognize the huge drug problem in America now. Meth and opioids pop up in a lot of cases, and it’s obviously a crisis, and even if they aren’t the driving force in many cases, they’re definitely part of many.

L-R: Kelly Siegler, Dick Wolf, Scott Patch and Liz Cook. Photo by Evans Vestal Ward

How do you go about finding cases for the show?
Cook: We have a case-finding team, and they get the cases various ways, including cold-calling. We have a team dedicated to that, calling every day, and we get most of them that way. A lot come through agencies and sheriff’s departments that have worked with us before and want to help us again. And we get some from family members and some from hits on the Facebook page we have.

I assume you need to work very closely with local law agencies as you need access to their files?
Cook: Exactly. That’s the first part of the whole puzzle. They have to invite us in. The second part is getting the family involved. I don’t think we’d ever take on a case that the family didn’t want us to do.

What’s involved for you, and do you like being a showrunner?
Cook: It’s a tough job and pretty demanding, but I love it. We go through a lot of steps and stuff to get a case approved, and to get the police and family on board, and then we get the case read by one of our legal readers to evaluate it and see if there’s a possibility that we can solve it. At that point we pitch it to the network, and once they approve it and everyone’s on board, then if there are certain things like DNA and evidence that might need testing, we get all that going, along with ballistics that need researching, and stuff like phone records and so on. And it actually moves really fast – we usually get all these people on board within three weeks.

How long does it take to shoot each show?
Cook: It varies, as each show is different, but around seven or eight days, sometimes longer. We have a case coming up with cadaver dogs, and that stuff will happen before we even get to the location, so it all depends. And some cases will have 40 witnesses, while others might have over 100. So it’s flexible.

Cold Justice

Where do you post, and what’s the schedule like?
Scott Patch: We do it all at the Magical Elves offices here in Hollywood — the editing, sound, color correction. The online editor and colorist is Pepe Serventi, and we have it all on one floor, and it’s really convenient to have all the post in house. The schedule is roughly two months from the raw footage to getting it all locked and ready to air, which is quite a long time.

Dailies come back to us and we do our first initial pass by the story team and editors, and they’ll start whittling all the footage down. So it takes us a couple of weeks to just look at all the footage, as we usually have about 180 hours of it, and it takes a while to turn all that into something the editors can deal with. Then it goes through about three network passes with notes.

What about dealing with all the legal aspects?
Patch: That makes it a different kind of show from most of the others, so we have legal people making sure all the content is fine, and then sometimes we’ll also get notes from local law agencies, as well as internal notes from our own producers. That’s why it takes two months from start to finish.

Cook: We vet it through local law, and they see the cuts before it airs to make sure there are no problems. The biggest priority for us is that we don’t hurt the case at all with our show, so we always check it all with the local D.A. and police. And we don’t sensationalize anything.

Cold Justice

Patch: That’s another big part of editing and post – making sure we keep it authentic. That can be a challenge, but these are real cases with real people being accused of murder.

Cook: Our instinct is to make it dramatic, but you can’t do that. You have to protect the case, which might go to trial.

Talk about editing. You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
Patch: Some of these cases have been cold for 25 or 30 years, so when the field team gets there, they really stand back and let the cops talk about the case, and we end up with a ton of stuff that you couldn’t fit into the time slot however hard you tried. So we have to decide what needs to be in, what doesn’t.

Cook: On day one, our “war room” day, we meet with the local law and everyone involved in the case, and that’s eight hours of footage right there.

Patch: And that gets cut down to just four or five minutes. We have a pretty small but tight team, with 10 editors who split up the episodes. Once in a while they’ll cross over, but we like to have each team and the producers stay with each episode as long as they can, as it’s so complicated. When you see the finished show, it doesn’t seem that complicated, but there are so many ways you could handle the footage that it really helps for each team to really take ownership of that particular episode.

How involved is Dick Wolf in post?
Cook: He loves the whole post process, and he watches all the cuts and has input.

Patch: He’s very supportive and obviously so experienced, and if we’re having a problem with something, he’ll give notes. And for the most part, the network gives us a lot of flexibility to make the show.

What about VFX on the show?
Patch: We have some, but nothing too fancy, and we use an outside VFX/graphics company, LOM Design. We have a lot of legal documents on the show, and that stuff gets animated, and we’ll also have some 3D crime scene VFX. The only other outside vendor is our composer, Robert ToTeras.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.


Showrunner: Eric Newman of Netflix’s Narcos: Mexico

By Iain Blair

Much like the drugs that form the dark heart of Narcos: Mexico, the hit Netflix crime drama is full of danger, chills and thrills — and is highly addictive. It explores the origins of the modern, ultra-violent drug war by going back to its roots, beginning at a time when the Mexican trafficking world was a loose and disorganized confederation of independent growers and dealers. But that all changed with the rise of the Guadalajara Cartel in the 1980s as Félix Gallardo (Diego Luna) — the real-life former Sinaloan police-officer-turned-drug lord — takes the helm, unifying traffickers in order to build an empire.

L-R: Director José Padilha and producer Chris Brancato bookend Eric Newman on the set of Narcos, Season 1.

The show also follows DEA agent Kiki Camarena (Michael Peña), who moves his wife and young son from California to Guadalajara to take on a new post. He quickly learns that his assignment will be more challenging than he ever could have imagined. As Kiki garners intelligence on Félix and becomes more entangled in his mission, a tragic chain of events unfold, affecting the drug trade and the war against it for years to come.

Narcos showrunner, writer and executive producer Eric Newman is a film and television veteran whose resume includes the Academy Award-nominated Children of Men, as well as The Dawn of the Dead, The Last Exorcism and Bright. After over 20 years in the movie industry, Newman transitioned into television as an executive producer on Hemlock Grove for Netflix. It was his curiosity about the international drug trade that led him to develop and executive produce his passion project Narcos, and Newman assumed showrunning responsibilities at the end of its first season. Narcos: Mexico initially started out as the fourth season of Narcos before Netflix decided to make it a stand-alone series.

I recently spoke with Newman about making the show, his involvement in post and another war that’s grabbed a lot of headlines — the one between streaming platforms and traditional cinema.

Do you like being a showrunner?
Yeah! There are aspects of it I really love. I began toward the end of the first season and there was this brief period where I tried not to be the showrunner, even though it was my show. I wasn’t really a writer — I wasn’t in the WGA — so I had a lot of collaborators, but I still felt alone in the driver’s seat. It’s a huge amount of work, from the writing to the shoot and then post, and it never really ends. It’s exhausting but incredibly rewarding.

What are the big challenges of running this show?
If I’d known more about TV at the time, I might have been far more frightened than I was (laughs).The big one is dealing with all the people and personalities involved. We have anywhere between 200 and 400 people working on the show at any given time, so it’s tricky. But I love working with actors, I think I’m a good listener, and any major problems are usually human-oriented. And then there’s all the logistics and moving parts. We began the series shooting in Colombia and then moved the whole thing to Mexico, so that was a big challenge. But the cast and crew are so great, we’re like a big family at this point, and it runs pretty smoothly now.

How far along are you with the second season of Narcos: Mexico?
We’re well into it, and while it’s called Season Two, the reality for us is that it’s the fifth season of a long, hard slog.

This show obviously deals with a lot of locations. How difficult is it when you shoot in Mexico?
It can be hard and grueling. We’re shooting entirely in Mexico — nothing in the States. We shot in Colombia for three years and we went to Panama once, and now we’re all over Mexico — from Mexico City to Jalisco, Puerto Vallarta, Guadalajara, Durango and so on.

It’s also very dangerous subject matter, and one of your location scouts was murdered. Do you worry about your safety?
That was a terrible incident, and I’m not sure whoever shot him even knew he was a location scout on our show. The reality is that a number of incredibly brave journalists, who had nowhere near the protection we have, had already shared these stories — and many were killed for it. So in many ways we’re late to the party.

Of course, you have to be careful anywhere you go, but that’s true of every city. You can find trouble in LA or New York if you are in the wrong place. I don’t worry about the traffickers we depict, as they’re mainly all dead now or in jail, and they seem OK with the way they’re depicted… that it’s pretty truthful. I worry a little bit more about the police and politicians.

Where do you post and do you like the post process?
I absolutely love post, and I think it’s a deeply underrated and under-appreciated aspect of the show. We’ve pulled off far more miracles in post than in any of the writing and shooting. We do all the post at Lantana in LA with the same great team that we’ve had from the start, including post producer Tim King and associate post producer Tanner King.

When we began the series in Colombia, we were told that Netflix didn’t feel comfortable having the footage down there for editing because of piracy issues, and that worked for me. I like coming back to edit and then going back down to Mexico to shoot. We shoot two episodes at a time and cut two at a time. I’m in the middle of doing fixes on Episode 2 and we’re about to lock Episode 3.

Talk about editing. You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
We have four full-time editors — Iain Erskine, Garret Donnelly, Monty DeGraff and Jon Otazua — who each take separate episodes, plus we have one editor dedicated to the archival package, which is a big part of the show. We’ve also promoted two assistant editors, which I’m very proud of. That’s a nice part of being on a show that’s run for five years; you can watch people grow and move them up the ladder.

You have a huge cast and a lot of moving pieces in each episode. What are the big editing challenges?
We have a fair amount of coverage to sort through, and it’s always about telling the story and the pacing — finding the right rhythm for each scene.

This show has a great score and great sound design. Where do you mix, and can you talk about the importance of sound and music?
We do all the mixing at Technicolor, and we have a great team that includes supervising sound editor Randle Akerson and supervising ADR editor Thomas Whiting. (The team also includes sound effects editors Dino R. DiMuro and Troy Prehmus, dialogue editor David Padilla, music editor Chris Tergesen, re-recording mixers Pete Elia and Kevin Roache and ADR mixer Judah Getz.)

It’s all so crucial. All you have to do is look at a rough edit without any sound of music and it’s just so depressing. I come from a family of composers, so I really appreciate this part of post, and composer Gustavo Santaolalla has done a fantastic job, and the music’s changed a bit since we moved to Mexico. I’m fairly involved with all of it. I get a final playback and maybe I’ll have a few notes, but generally the team has got it right.

In 2017, you formed Screen Arcade with producer Bryan Unkeless, a production company based at Netflix with deals for features and television. I heard you have a new movie you’re producing for Netflix, PWR with Jamie Foxx and Joseph Gordon-Levitt?
It’s all shot, and we’re just headed into the Director’s Cut. We’re posting in New York and have our editorial offices there. Netflix is so great to partner with. They care as much about the quality of image and sound as any studio I’ve ever worked with — and I’ve worked with everyone. In terms of the whole process and deliverables, there’s no difference.

It’s interesting because there’s been a lot of pushback against Netflix and other streaming platforms from the studios, purists and directors like Steven Spielberg. Where do you see the war for cinema’s future going?
I think it’ll be driven entirely by audience viewing habits, as it should be. Some of my all-time favorite movies — The Bridge on the River Kwai, Taxi Driver, Sunset Boulevard, Barry Lyndon — weren’t viewed in a movie house.

Cinema exhibition is a business. They want Black Panther and Star Wars, so it’s a commerce argument not a creative one. With all due respect to Spielberg, no one can dictate viewing habits, and maybe for now they can deny Netflix and streaming platforms Academy awards, but not forever.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.


House of Cards showrunners Melissa James Gibson and Frank Pugliese

By Iain Blair

Since it first premiered back in 2013, Netflix’s oh-so-timely political thriller House of Cards has been a big hit, delivering provocative, twisty plot lines peppered with surprises and shocks. It has also racked up dozens of awards, including 33 Primetime Emmys and fistfuls of Golden Globes along the way. But the biggest shocker of all was probably the real-life firing of star Kevin Spacey last year by Netflix, following allegations of sexual misconduct.

Writer Iain Blair (left) with Melissa James Gibson and Frank Pugliese.

With Spacey — and power-hungry Frank Underwood — suddenly MIA, the upside is that girls now rule the world. This is great news for Robin Wright fans as the Golden Globe-winner and Emmy-nominee returns as President of the United States in Season 6, the final season of the series, which is now streaming on Netflix.

The show has added Oscar-nominees Diane Lane and Greg Kinnear to the cast, in addition to American Horror Story-alum Cody Fern. They join existing players Michael Kelly, Jayne Atkinson, Patricia Clarkson, Constance Zimmer, Derek Cecil, Campbell Scott and Boris McGiver.

Behind the scenes, Melissa James Gibson and Frank Pugliese continue as showrunners for Season 6, and serve as executive producers along with Robin Wright, David Fincher, Joshua Donen, Dana Brunetti, Eric Roth, Michael Dobbs and Andrew Davies. Created for television by Beau Willimon, House of Cards is produced by Donen/Fincher/Roth and Trigger Street Productions, in association with Media Rights Capital for Netflix.

I recently spoke with Gibson and Pugliese about making the show and awards season.

When Kevin Spacey was fired, and you lost the show’s star, did you consider ending the series early?
Frank Pugliese: Yes, it was a huge thing, a big shock, and I think it had to be considered.

Melissa James Gibson: Everything was on the table as we wanted to make sure our way forward was the right one. We needed to regroup and carefully go through every possibility.

Pugliese: But pretty quickly we figured out that the best response was to try and tell the story without Francis on screen. So within a day or so, we were back at work, writing out ideas and discussing how to do it.

What can you tell us about the new season? Robin has said that it’ll be “a real shocker.”
Pugliese: Our hope is that it’s shocking but also feels inevitable at the same time, and we’re trying our best to give the show its most satisfying ending that has integrity and also serves a story that’s been told over many years.

Gibson: We tried to forge a brave way forward that would also be a reckoning for all of the characters We both knew that this season “reckoning” would be a key word, along with “complicity.”

Robin’s directed quite a few episodes over the years. Is it true she also directed the big finale?
Pugliese: Yes, and it seemed so appropriate. Remember, Season 5 ended with her saying, “My turn,” so even as we began exploring what to do this season, it seemed unacceptable to not have that examined and dramatized. It just seemed right that she would direct the last one, and the last scene of the whole story was actually done on the last day of shooting. So her as the lead and also directing just seemed right.

Gibson: It kind of all led up to that, and the focus was always going to be on her in Season 6.

Pugliese: So much had been set up at the end of the last season, and we’d talked so much during the planning of that season about how Season 6 would go, and about who really owns the White House. Pile on the power. And Francis says he’ll own the White House by owning her. No matter what, it was going to be all about her and the powers that be trying to own her — one of them being her husband.

Maybe it’s a very prescient arc, and America will elect a woman president next?
Gibson: Wouldn’t that be nice!

Do you like being a showrunners?
Gibson: We both love it. We came on as writers on Season 3 when Beau hired us, worked as writers on Season 4, and then began showrunning last season.

Pugliese: I really like it.

Gibson: It’s because I feel that a lot of the challenges Claire faces this season are the same ones you face as a showrunner (laughs). When you’re making decisions and setting priorities it says a lot about what you value.

What are the big challenges of showrunning?
Gibson: I’d say establishing all the priorities, both micro and macro.

Pugliese: We work very closely, and it probably goes back to our days in theater, but for me it’s establishing a collective communal work atmosphere. Your hope is that you can delegate a lot of the responsibility and then do the best work possible. If you can do that successfully, then the show’s successful. Helping establish all that really helped us with the new season, because in dealing with [the Spacey firing] we all felt that the best way to deal with it was to get to work and focus on telling the best story we could. Everyone agreed on that.

Where do you post?
Pugliese: We shoot in Baltimore, but all the post is done here in LA, and we do remote sessions using Pix.

Is that weird?
Pugliese: It’s weird until it’s not weird. If you think about it, it is, but you quickly get used to it and we can go over sequences in great detail.

Do you like the post process?
Gibson: We love it. It’s the third part of the entire storytelling, and I’ve learned so much dealing with post and editing and visual effects and so on. Our post supervisor, Hameed Shaukat, has been with the show since the very start.

You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
Gibson: We have about four at any one time, and many have been with the show for years, and they’ll hop-scotch around. We give notes, they’ll re-cut stuff, and we’ll have robust conversations about scenes and the tone and pacing and so on.

Pugliese: Some days we’ll get on the phone right away and they’ll cut some things to see if they’re even working or not. There’s a lot of back and forth.

You have a big cast and a lot of stuff going on in each episode. What are the big editing challenges?
Gibson: It’s always about trying to balance the various competing elements and characters, and then this season we have a number of new characters and cast members, like Diane Lane and Greg Kinnear, so it’s all about calibration and the rhythm.

Pugliese: We work really hard to get the scripts in the best place possible, and we have really intensive and extensive tonal meetings where we go line by line and explain the intent to everyone involved. So if everyone’s on the same page when it comes to tone and intent, then they can go off and just do their jobs. That means less work for us, so we can then just focus on the overall storyline.

Gibson: It helps that there was a rigorous vocabulary established right at the start by David Fincher, so we had a great template to follow.

Pugliese: It also helped us in knowing when it was time to move away from that.

This show has a great score and great sound design. Talk about the importance of sound and music.
Gibson: It’s a vital part, and like Hameed, composer Jeff Beal has been with the show since day one, and he wrote that famous theme. He knows exactly what is needed. We also have a great sound team, with guys like supervising sound editor Jeremy Molod and sound designer Ren Klyce, who’ve also been there since day one. It’s a pretty well-oiled machine by now.

How important are awards to a show like this?
Pugliese: I get so excited when I see people in the show get recognized by their peers. Everyone works so hard.

There’s been a lot of talk about lack of opportunity for women in movies. Are things better in TV?
Gibson: It’s so good that people are now talking openly about the problems, and I think the industry as a whole is trying to make adjustments and make sure there are more women in the room, more people of color. But it’s not just that it’s the right thing to do ethically — it’s also about being good for the work. It needs to change.

Pugliese: Yes, it does need to change, and a correction is long overdue.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.

 


Showrunner/EP Robert Carlock talks Netflix’s Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt

By Iain Blair

When Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt first premiered back in 2015, the sitcom seemed quite shocking — and not just because NBC sold it off to Netflix so quickly. While at the streaming service, it has been a big hit with audiences and critics alike, racking up dozens of industry awards and nominations, including 18 Primetime Emmy nominations.

Robert Carlock

Created by Tina Fey and Robert Carlock, the sunny comedy with a dark premise stars Ellie Kemper as the title character. She moves to New York City after being rescued from an underground bunker where she and three other women were held captive for 15 years by a doomsday cult leader (Jon Hamm).

Alone in the Big Apple, and armed only with her unbreakable sense of optimism, Kimmy soon forges a new life that includes her colorful landlady Lillian Kaushtupper (Carol Kane), her struggling actor roommate (Tituss Burgess) and her socialite employer (Jane Krakowski). The strong cast also boasts recurring talent and A-list guests, such as Tina Fey, Martin Short, Fred Armisen, Jeff Goldblum, Amy Sedaris and Lisa Kudrow.

Last year Netflix renewed the show for a final season, with the first six episodes premiering in May 2018.

I recently spoke with Carlock about making the show, the Emmys and the planned movie version.

When Kimmy Schmidt first came out, its premise seemed bizarre and shocking — a young woman who was kidnapped, abused and held captive in an underground bunker. But looking back today, it seems ahead of its time.
Unfortunately, I think you’re right. At the time we felt strongly it was a way to get people talking about things and issues they didn’t necessarily want to talk about, such as how women are really treated in this society. And with the #MeToo movement it’s more timely than ever. Tina would say, “It keeps happening, it’s in the news all the time, and at this level,” and it’s really sad that it’s true. The last two seasons we’ve been dealing more and more with issues like this, and now people really are talking about sexual harassment in the workplace. But we have the added burden of also trying to make it funny.

Is Season 4 definitely the final one?
I think so, and the second half will stream sometime early next year. In the meantime, we’re talking about the movie deal that Netflix wants and what that will entail. We kind of thought about it as, “Let’s give our characters endings since there’s still so much to talk about,” but you also have to bear in mind the topicality of it all in a year or so. So it gave us the luxury of being able to finish the show in a way that felt right, and Season 5 — the second half of Season 4 — will satisfy fans, I think. We’re also very happy that Netflix is so enthusiastic about doing it this way.

Do you like being a showrunner?
I do, and I love it better than not being in charge. The beauty of TV is that, unlike in movies, and for a variety of reasons, writers get to be in charge. I love the fact that when you’re a showrunner, you get to learn so much about everything, including all the post production. You work with all these really skilled artisans and get to oversee the entire process from start to finish, including picking out what shade of blue the dress should be (laughs). It’s much better than watching other people make all the key decisions.

What are the big challenges of showrunning?
The big one is trying to think outside of the writer’s room. You have all that ambition on the page, but then you have to deal with the reality of actually shooting it and making it work. It’s a lot easier to type it than execute it. Then you have to be really objective about what’s working and what isn’t, because you fall in love with what you write. So you have to realize, “Maybe this needs a little insert, or more jokes here to get the point across,” and you have to put that producer hat on — and that can be really tricky. It’s a challenge for sure, but we’ve also been fortunate in having a great crew that’s been with us a while, so there’s that shorthand, and things move quickly on the set and we get a lot done.

Where do you shoot and post?
We do the shooting at the Broadway Stages in Brooklyn, and have all the editing setup there as well. Then we have Tina’s production offices at Columbus Circle, and we do all the sound at Sync Sound in midtown Manhattan.

Do you like the post process?
I love post and the whole process of seeing a script come alive as you edit.  You find ways of telling the story that you maybe didn’t expect.

You have a big cast and a lot of stuff going on in each episode. What are the big editing challenges?
One of the big creative challenges of a single-camera show — which ultimately also gives you so many more tools in writing, shooting and editing — is that you don’t get to see rehearsals. So one of the reasons our episodes are going into post and often coming out of post so stuffed with story and jokes is that we don’t get so many opportunities to see exactly what’s making the scene tick. We’re hitting the story, hitting the jokes and hitting the characters too many times, and  a lot of the challenge is scraping all those away. Our episodes come in around the mid-30s often, and we think they live and play best around 26 or 27 minutes. That’s where I think the sweet spot is. So you can feel, “Oh, I love that joke,” but the hard reality is that the scene plays so much better without it.

Talk about the importance of sound and music.
I think it’s so important in comedy, and it can totally change the feel of a scene. Jeff Richmond — Tina’s husband and one of our producers — does all the music. He’s also fantastic in the edit. So if I’m not available or Tina isn’t, then he or Sam Means, another producer, can take our edit notes and interpret them. We’ll type up 15 pages on a Director’s Cut, and then we hone the show until it’s a lock for the network, and we go through it all frame by frame.

How important are the Emmys to you and a show like this?
Increasingly now, with all the noise and static out there, and so many other good shows, it’s really important. I think it helps cut through the clutter. When you’re working hard on a show like this, with your head down all the time, you don’t really know where you stand sometimes. So to be nominated by your peers means a lot. (Laughs) I wish it didn’t, but we’re small-minded people who only really care about other people’s opinions.

What’s the latest on talk about a movie? Will it be a theatrical release or just Netflix, or both?
That’s a great question. Who knows? We’re in the middle of trying to figure out the budget. I imagined it would be just streaming, but maybe it will be theatrical as well. One thing’s for sure. We won’t be one of those TV shows that gets a whole new cast for the movie version. Lightning struck with our first cast, and we’re not looking to replace anyone.

There’s been a lot of talk about lack of opportunity for women in movies. Are things better in TV?
I can only speak for us, but we like shows where there’s a lot of diversity and different voices, and sometimes we step in a bear trap we didn’t even know was there because we’re trying to write for so many different voices. For us, it just makes sense to embrace diversity, but it’s such a complicated and thorny issue. I’m just glad we’re talking about it more now. It’s what interests us. When Tina and I first sat down to write this, we didn’t want to do something salacious and exploitive. We were thinking about a really startling way to get people talking about gender and class. It’s been a fun challenge.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.


Showtime’s Homeland: Producer/director Lesli Linka Glatter

By Iain Blair

Since it first premiered back in 2011, the provocative, edgy and timely spy thriller Homeland has been a huge hit with audiences and critics alike. It has also racked up dozens of awards, including Primetime Emmys and Golden Globes.

The show, which features an impressive cast — namely Claire Danes and Mandy Patinkin — is Showtime’s number one drama series is produced by Fox 21 Television Studios and was developed for American television by Alex Gansa and Howard Gordon. Homeland is based on the Israeli series Prisoners of War from Gideon Raff.

Lesli Linka Glatter

Producer Lesli Linka Glatter is an award-winning director of film and episodic dramas. Her TV work includes The Newsroom, The Walking Dead, Justified, Ray Donovan, Masters of Sex, Nashville, True Blood, Mad Men, The Good Wife, House, The West Wing, NYPD Blue, ER and Freaks and Geeks, just to name a few. Most recently, she directed the first two episodes of Dick Wolf’s limited series Law & Order: True Crime — The Menendez Murders for NBC.

Glatter was nominated for a fifth Emmy for directing the Homeland episode “America First,” and in 2015 and 2016 she was also among the producers acknowledged when Homeland received back-to-back Emmy nominations for Best Drama. 

Glatter began her directing career through American Film Institute’s Directing Workshop for Women, and her short film Tales of the Meeting and Parting was nominated for an Academy Award. Her first series was Amazing Stories, followed by Twin Peaks, for which she received her first Directors Guild Award nomination. She made her feature film directorial debut with Now and Then, followed by The Proposition. For HBO she directed State of Emergency, Into the Homeland and The Promise.

To say her career has been prolific is an understatement. I recently spoke with Glatter about making Homeland, the Emmys, her love of post and mentoring other women.

Have you started Season 8?
Not yet. We’re not even prepping yet since we just finished Season 7. The first thing that happens is the writers, myself, Claire, Mandy and the DP go to DC to meet with the intelligence community, and what we find out from talking to these people then becomes the next season.

Is it definitely the final one?
I think that’s unclear yet. It might go on.

Do you like being a showrunner?
I love it. As a producing director I love being involved with the whole novel, the whole big picture of the season, as well as the individual chapters. There’s an overall look and feel and tone to each season, and I also get to direct four of the 12 episodes. We have other amazing directors who come in, and that creates energy and brings in a different point of view, yet it fits into the whole, overall storyline and feel of the season. We have this wonderful working environment on the show where the best idea wins, so it’s very creative. Then every year we reinvent the wheel, with a new look and feel for the show.

What are the big challenges of showrunning?
A complex show like this is filled with all sorts of challenges and joys, in equal parts. Obviously, everything starts with the material and the script, then I have my partners in crime — Claire and Mandy — who’re so creative and collaborative. The big challenge is that we try to make each season new and fresh. People might look at one of Season 7’s shows and think we have it all dialed in with the same sets, the same crew in place and so on, but we’re always going to a new place with a new crew and new sets, and we shoot for 11 days, but nine of those are usually on location, so we have very few on stage. In terms of logistics, that is really challenging. Every episode’s different, but that’s generally how it works. Then we’re exploring very relevant and timely issues. We just dealt with “a nation divided” and Russian meddling, and these are things that everyone’s talking about right now.

As mentioned, you direct a lot of shows. Do you prefer doing that?
It’s more that I see myself as a director first and foremost, although I love showrunning and producing as well. I want to be the producer that every director would love to have, since I try to give them whatever they need to tell their best stories. I have a great line producer/partner named Michael Klick. He’s the magic man who makes it all happen. The key in TV is to have great partners, and our core creative team — DPs David Klein and Giorgio Scali, our editors, production designers, costume designers — are all so talented. You want the smartest team you can get, and then let the best idea win, and we always aim for a very cinematic look.

Where do you post?
We did all the editing on the Fox lot and all the sound mixing at Universal. Encore does the VFX.

Do you like the post process?
I love it. It’s where it all comes together, and you get to look at everything you’ve done and re-shape it and make it the best it can be. Along with everyone else, I have my idea of what each episode will be, and then we have our editing team and they bring all their ideas to it, so it’s very exciting to watch it evolve.

Talk about editing. You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
We have three editors — Jordan Goldman, Harvey Rosenstock and Philip Carr Neel — because of the tight schedule, and they each handle different episodes and focus solely on those… unless we run into a problem.

You have a big cast and a lot of stuff going on in each episode. What are the big editing challenges?
Telling the best possible story and staying true to the theme and subtext and intent of that story. The show really lives in shades of gray with a lot of ambiguity. A classic Homeland scene will feature two characters on completely opposing sides of an issue, and they’re both right and both wrong. So maybe that makes you think more about that issue and question your beliefs, and I love that about the show.

This show has a great score by Sean Callery, as well as great sound design. Can you talk about the importance of sound and music.
Sean’s an amazing storyteller and brilliant at what he does, as the show has a huge amount of anxiety in it, and he captures that and helps amplify it — but without making it obvious. He’s been on the show since the start, and we’ve also worked with the same sound team for a long time, and sound design’s such a key element in our show. We spend a lot of time on all the little details that you may not notice in a scene.

How important are the Emmys to you and a show like this?
You can’t ever think about awards while you’re working. You just focus on trying to tell the best possible story, but in this golden age of TV it’s great to be recognized by your peers. It’s huge!

There’s been a lot of talk about lack of opportunity for women in movies. Are things better in TV?
Things are changing and improving. I’ve been involved with mentoring women directors for many, many years, and I hope we soon get to a point where gender is no longer an issue. If you’d asked me back when I began directing over 20 years ago if we’d still be discussing all this today, I’d have said, “Absolutely not!” But here we still are. The truth is, showrunning and directing are hard and challenging jobs, but women should have the same opportunities as men. Simple as that.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.


Showrunner Dan Pyne — Amazon Studios’ Bosch

By Iain Blair

How popular is Amazon’s Emmy-nominated detective show Bosch? So popular that the streaming service ordered up Season 5 before Season 4 even debuted in April. This critically acclaimed hour-long series is Amazon’s longest-running Prime Original.

Based on the best-selling novels by Michael Connelly, the show stars Titus Welliver (Lost) as LAPD homicide detective Harry Bosch, alongside a large ensemble cast that includes James Hector (The Wire), Amy Aquino (Being Human), Madison Lintz (The Walking Dead) and Lance Reddick (The Wire).

Dan Pyne

Season 4 kicked off with the murder of a high-profile attorney on the eve of his civil rights trial against the LAPD. Bosch is assigned to lead a task force — that suspects fellow cops — to solve the crime before the city erupts in a riot. Bosch must pursue every lead, even if it turns the spotlight back on his own department. One murder intertwines with another, and Bosch must reconcile his not-so-simple past to find a justice that has long eluded him.

Bosch was developed for television by Eric Overmyer (Treme, The Wire, Homicide: Life on the Streets) and is executive produced by Dan Pyne, whose film credits include The Manchurian Candidate, Pacific Heights, Sum of All Fears and Fracture. He also co-created and co-produced The Street, a syndicated police procedural starring Stanley Tucci.

I recently spoke with Pyne about making the show, the Emmys, production and post.

Eric Overmyer, who took a break to work on another Amazon production, The Man in the High Castle, is coming back to act as co-showrunner with you on Season 5. How will you split duties?
Good question! We’re making it up as we go along. I’d never worked with him before, but I did have a longtime partner before. Basically, we talk a lot and come to an agreement about any issues. The great thing about this show is that every season is its own entity, with its own rhythm and voice.

Have you started on Season 5?
We have, and we have almost six episodes plotted out and we start shooting in early August.

Where do you shoot?
We’re based at Red Studios in Hollywood, which isn’t far from the local police station, and we recreated that interior on a set, and it’s so uncannily similar — apart from a few details — that it’s hard to tell them apart. We shoot a lot in Hollywood and then locations all over the city and further afield.

Bosch has a very cinematic feel and look.
Yes, and that’s in part due to our producer, Pieter Jan Brugge, who comes from film and who’s worked a lot with Michael Mann on movies like Heat and Miami Vice — this is his first TV show.  I come from a film background too, so we take more of a film approach and discuss stuff like the sound and visuals and what they should be like and how a scene should play before we even start shooting

Do you like being a showrunner?
I do, and I was well-trained. I came up intending to write movies and then fell into TV and got lucky with the show Hard Copy. I became a specialist in 10-episode arcs (like Bosch). I got to work with several legendary showrunners, including Richard Levinson and William Link, who created such classic TV shows as Columbo and Murder, She Wrote, and William Sackheim who did Gidget and The Flying Nun. I haven’t done showrunning that much, but I always ran my own shows. And it’s the closest thing to being a film director because you have control and get to collaborate with everyone else, including post, which is so much fun.

Where do you post?
At Red Studios. We have a great team, including post producer Mark Douglas and post supervisor Tayah Geist, and we do color correction at Warner Bros. with colorist Scott Klein. He works closely with Pieter and the DPs, and sometimes we’ll make an entire season cooler or warmer. We’ll get inspiration from movies — maybe Japanese films or Blade Runner and so on — to help us with the color palette.

Do you like the post process?
Very much. It’s so true when people say, like with movies, there are three TV shows — the one you write, the one you shoot and the one you make in post. It’s in post where you start all over again each time, see what you’ve got, what works and doesn’t. I’ve always enjoyed collaborating with editors and all the sound people. I love what they bring to storytelling: the way they can help say things and elevate the material and help make stuff clear for the audience, and show or hide emotionality.

Let’s talk about editing. You have several editors, I assume because of the time factor. How does that work?
Yes, it’s the tight schedule, and in order to get it done we rotate three editors. One does four shows, and the other two do three, and we alternate. That way they have enough time to cut a show and pretty much finish it before moving to the next one. If you only have two editors, the workload’s overwhelming, so we use three — Steve Cohen, Jacque Toberen and Kevin Casey. There are three assistant editors — Rafael Nur, Judy Guerrero and Knar Kitabjian.

You have a big cast, and a lot of stuff going on in each episode. What are the big editing challenges?
We have two big ones. As it’s an investigative show it can be very detailed, so clarity is always a priority — making sure that all the story and plot points get pulled in the right way and land correctly. Mike’s books are very twisty, and they have a lot of tiny clues, so as detectives walk through scenes they’ll see things. There’s a lot of visual foreshadowing of things that come back later. The other one is making sure the episodes have pace. Police procedurals tend to fall into a pattern of walk-and-talk, and we try and avoid that.

Who does the VFX, and what’s involved?
Moving Target, and their Alan Munro is our VFX supervisor. We use a lot more VFX than you would imagine. One of the show’s hallmarks is making it all as real as possible, so when we recently did a show with scenes in tunnels we used a lot of masking and CGI as we were limited in the way we could light and shoot the actual tunnels. I find that visual effects really make TV a lot easier. We do some plates depending on the situation, but often it’s really small stuff and cleanup to make it all even more realistic.

This show has a great score by Jesse Voccia and great sound design. Can you talk about the importance of sound and music?
Sound is always difficult because it’s TV. It’s the nature of the beast. TV often shoots so fast that the production sound can be problematic, what with traffic noise and so on, and you have to fix all that. But I love playing with sound and working with the sound designers and ADR guys. We do all the mixing at Technicolor at Paramount, and we have a great crew. There’s not a lot of music in the show, but we try to make it all count and not use short little stingers like TV usually does, or score a chase. We’ll use sound design or natural sound instead.

How important are the Emmys to a show like this, which seems a little underrated?
It would be great to be nominated, although maybe the fans don’t care that much. We do fly under the radar a bit, I think, so more recognition would be very welcome.

Thanks to the ongoing source material, the show could easily run for many more years. Will you do more seasons of the show?
I’d love to. What’s so great is that every season is brand new and different, with its own beginning, middle and end. It plays like a book, so we can really work on the tone and feel.


Industry insider Iain Blair has been interviewing the biggest directors in Hollywood and around the world for years. He is a regular contributor to Variety and has written for such outlets as Reuters, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the Boston Globe.